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now that is what we call a love review. thats a rave. i hope this one is better than the rundown.

Maybe it will not be for you... who knows?

I felt the same things. I loved it. I can see Oscar noms if it doesn't get lost in between seasons.

its a great film. just haven't seen u really love a film in a long while. its been some time since i sensed a lot of passion for a movie from you. bout time they came out with something.

Burton and Depp might be the best team working in film today. Even though if The Departed is great then Leo and Marty S are making a run at them. No, I refuse to count Affleck and Kevin Smith.

Let me preface this: I liked the movie. But I disagree with a few of your assessments.

The pacing of the film was a problem for me. If anything, I thought it could have taken longer for the children to find the tickets. Every ticket found should have felt like a personal defeat for Charlie, every candy bar unwrapped like a loss. I wanted it to build-- I should have been gushing when Charlie found his ticket, but it felt almost rote.

I warmed to Depp's performance as the film progressed, but it still felt like too much of a caricature. There simply wasn't enough basis in real human behavior. The comic beats were overplayed. And the addition of the backstory, while fine in and of itself, also forced the screenplay's structure into an awkward position, as the material after they left the factory really started to drag.

Burton's best movie, to me, remains Edward Scissorhands. It is the pure, simple fairy tale which Charlie and the Chocolate Factory aspired to be.

Eric, you seem to be nitpicking the film. Are you more of a fan of the first one?

Great review, David...I loved the film too, but not as much as you. Eric- the reason for the golden ticket non-build up is because this film is about Willy Wonka, not Charlie Bucket. Charlie doesn't even have a character arc in this film....he's solid all the way through. Which gets at my major issue with the film...

As hysterical and quirky and weird as Depp's Wonka is (and I LOVE those things about his portrayl), I'm still not sure I ever "liked" the character. I mean, I didn't want to see him die or anything...but he was just to hard to root for. Charlie? No way...I was almost teared up a few times at what a good kid he is. I was pulling for Charlie and his parents the whole way. But Willy....Hmmm...I'm not so sure. I still loved the film, but my vote for best major release is still going to BATMAN BEGINS. So far anyway...

I don't think we're meant to like Wonka. He's eccentric. Not really deep down likeable.

does this mean johnny depp is going to start making movies with chris tucker or martin lawrence or chris rock?

I have fond memories of the older film, having watched it several times when I was young. But I haven't seen it in years, and don't remember it well enough to compare the two. I don't think it's bearing much on my evaluation of the new one.

I'm generally in Eric's camp. Depp was less creepy than I expected, but still a bit... off. And the ending was terrible, I felt. Would've preferred less Wonka back story and less obviousness over "families are important things". Bah. Humbug.

(But I did like it, overall, quite a bit).

is the backlash gonna occupy this site now? i don't see how u can be negative on this movie unless ur anti wonka, anti burton or a huge fan of gene wilder.

Some movies deserve their proper backlash and scorn (ie Fantastic Four). Others don't. No movie will be universally loved. If some people like, others will have to chop it down. That is the game.

I don't think I'm nitpicking the film-- quite the opposite, in fact. It's the small details that I enjoyed. Most of my issues with it are broader problems-- pacing, storytelling choices.

As I said, I liked it overall. But I liked it because the details, the nice touches, accumulated. But the emotional pull of the film, which is where I was unsatisfied, was never more than the sum of those parts.

i had a hard time getting used to Depp too but I still think by the end he convinced me. ANd plenty of eccentric artistic types behave strangely and far worse than Wonka in that movie. He reminded me of some of the reclusive goths I have to work with. They do not mix, and do go much beyond Edward Gorey type of existence.

I guess by the second time the manner of the ending sat easier with me, and I do love Christopher Lee, so I didn't mind him.

The first introduction of the Dad-backstory was a little odd, but I think it was better supported through the rest of the movie.

Overall, I think this is Burton's best movie. I just want to know how Depp's teeth stayed so white living in a factory that makes candy for goodness sake (and clearly avoiding a dentist for years) and everyone else looks like they have 19th century dentures. Maybe Willy Wonka orders Pearlescence by mail.

Anytime Christopher Lee makes an appearance in a movie its a good thing.

The negative review on that site really doesn't give the new movie a chance. It's like he wants to be negative for negative sake.

Wonka was so much better than I expected...the trailers made it seem like the utterly rancid THE GRINCH and damn was that NOT the case...Burton is at the top of his visual game with this one, Depp is great as always (if almost a little too weird for some people), the musical numbers are fun and not annoying, the production design is extra-fucking-ordinary, and the cgi is perfectly seamless. John August nailed the script (again, much better than I ever thought it would have been). I loved the original and i totally loved this version. I couldn't help myself with the squirrels...so funny and strange and the epitomy of Burton's off-beat style.
3.5 stars.
it's been a great summer...

The GRINCH? What's up with dat?

yeah...the grinch...it sucked...was a total mis-fire except for Carrey's work...hated it...was deeply disapointed by the movie...horrendous editing and dp work...spastic/madcap energy that went nowhere. I wanted that movie to be as awesome as Chocolate Factory turned out to be...of course, this is just my opinoin. For Ron Howard to make THE GRINCH and then do THE MISSING (which for me is his best, most disciplined, most underrated work) 2 movies later is just baffling.

Seriously, are there enough freaking nicks here? Its not hard. Pick a nickname.

The Grinch was a disaster. I wonder if Carrey even felt bad for cashing the paycheck.

The Grinch was not one of Little Ronnie Howards finer efforts. He directed that right? If I'm wrong tell me.

yes...ron howard did the grinch...a grating experience...not an ounce of movie magic in that one, something that is on display big-time in Burton's factory. I hope this movie has long legs at the box office and that kids enjoyed it as much as I did, even if I am a big kid at heart.

thomas broadhead obviously is not able to enjoy himself. clearly.

We're being taken over by Nick's! Bring back poker!

Hey, everybody sing: The name game! Nick! Nick, nick, bo-bick. Bananan-fanna, bo-nick. Fi, fi, fo, fick! Nick!

I think I had better go lie down now.

I haven't seen the movie (NOT OUT 'TIL SEPTEMBER - I'm gonna keep that up til the cows come home) so all I'm gonna say this this:

Who the hell says "rote"?

Let me begin by saying I'm an intermittent Tim Burton fan. I loved Pee Wee's Big Adventure, liked Batman Returns, was really impressed with Ed Wood, and what kind of jackass are you if you don't like Nightmare Before Christmas (I'm aware Henry Selick did directing duties on that one)? Having said that, I find many of his films to be style over substance. Sleepy Hollow was very could-have-been with an extremely lame plot twist at the end. I thought Planet of the Apes was an abomination, practically death-sentence worthy. And I felt Big Fish wasn't quite what it tried to be.

So I went into Wonka skeptical, but not negatively biased aside from really being irritated by the way Depp was coming off in the trailers. I thought the film was mostly good, but I'm definitely feeling some of the shortcomings that were mentioned before. Also, I don't remember the exact ending of the book, but it sure as hell wasn't all warm and squishy like this film. I can't help thinking that Roald Dahl would be groaning in his seat. How can you get so much of it right, and then go so wrong? The Christopher Lee stuff didn't feel out of place, but it was a set of bookends that just jumped from one extreme to the other. That's not character development in my book.

DP can sit there and lambast the Depp-detractors all he wants but it's hard to deny that this is one of those performances that isn't going to work for everyone. The Michael Jackson thing is only one part of it. Depp isn't flawless. He's a great actor, but they all have missteps. There were several notes in the performance that just rang really false for me.

In the end, the film is saved more by Freddie Highmore than anyone else. Credit also goes to the rest of the Buckets, and the phenomenal Deep Roy. Each musical number was a hilarious combination of Elfman's insanity, McDowell's vision and Roy's deadpan acting. A welcome surprise.

David should know he's off the deep end on this one. Good film, but the Peter Pan from a couple years ago runs circles around it, even if it's not by a "hip" director who has legions of misfit followers who lap up everything he does. Rachel Hurd-Wood's Wendy was a lot more nuanced than Charlie, and Jason Isaac's Hook/Mr. Darling was so much more poignant than what they did with Wonka here. That's the film that should have become a classic, and would have if Universal had marketed it correctly, or if all the idiots hadn't accused it of the sexual innuendo between the kids.

One suggestion for nick's new NICKNAME: THE GOAT! It has to do with a pitcher that cost the Cubs Dontrelle Willis, and now pitches in Fenway.

My Fave Burton:
1. Edward Scissorhands
2. Nightmare Before Christmas (technically...)
3. Sleepy Hollow
4. Batman Returns
5. Ed Wood
6. Mars Attacks!
7. Beetlejuice
8. Big Fish
9. Batman
10. PeeWee's Big Adventure
10,000,000. Planet of the Apes

That being said, i love them up until 6 (that includes Mars Attacks! I was 11 at the time and it was a hoot!), still really like Beetlejuice, think Big Fish and Batman are already and I can't really remember PeeWee. The less said about Apes the better.

I don't see how you can have Pee Wee at #9.

That is just ridiculous. Behind Sleepy and Mars? Blasphemy.

Camel, is that list backwards? Batman Returns ahead of Batman? Did we see the same movies?

i forgot just how solid a career burton has had. thats a pretty impressive resume and it just keeps on getting better. i'd throw charlie in my top 5.

Can we forgive Tim for Planet of the Apes yet? He needed the money.

I like "rote." I had debated between "mechanical," and even "arbitrary," but it was the best word.

I think it's emblematic of the internet culture that I'm called out for using an unusual, possibly arcane word, and Bicycle Bob apparently gets a free pass.

(Bob, don't take that personally.)

Batman Returns is absolutely better than Batman. Have you watched either of them lately? Batman '89 is a little dull and the Prince songs haven't aged well.

Hey Eric,
Way to take it personally.

Batman Returns is just plain stinky. Except for Catwoman. The Penguin is the worst comic book villian in a movie yet.

BR is also much more Burtony, which is a good thing.

oh my bad. i forgot that we were supposed to be tom wolfe or norman mailer or john updike here. i'm sorry. darn.

Batman Returns was Burton slumming for some money. Movie had no imagination. It was like he was going thru the motions and had to fit too much stuff in there. Batman is the better film. Begins beats both of them pretty easily. Until Batman 2. When we can compare Nicholson to whoever Nolan picks.

I really value the time we all spend together here. I mean that.

Do you want to makeout or something? You're sweet. Now which Eric are you? Since theres 42 of them here.

By my count, there's only two of us. But we got it straightened out.

Mayhaps you're thinking of Nicks.

2 is too many. How about "Nicklaus"?

I would argue that Batman Returns is not only either #1 or #2 of all Batman films, but one of Burton's most personal films.

The Cat and The Bird were rich, fertile characters. No one has done feminism with a sense of humor better in any film I can recall. And Penquin's look at the brain damage that popularity and unpopularity can bring is inspired.

Max Shreck is greatness... complete with moron son.

Sorry you don't like it, Mark, but I would call it a near masterpiece. The only boring part is Batman himself.

I'm gonna play this town like a harp from hell.

Hell Here.

Etc, etc, etc...

I know this isn't the proper place, but I felt like sharing anyway. I saw The Brothers Grimm this afternoon. It is not good.

Thanks Dave. I don't think you can look at Batman Returns and say that it has no imagination. In fact, it is too overstuffed and weird which is why WB replaced Burton with Schumacher.

Bob, nobody will ever confuse you with Updike or Mailer. Tom Wolfe, yes, because we all know you only wear white suits.

Oh yeah, just saw CatCF. Definitely Burton's best since Ed Wood.

He really should have done something with the Catwoman character. Her own movie. Because the version that got released last year puts a damper on all the good that Burton and Michelle Pfeiffer did with that character.

Batman Returns may have been a personal film to Burton. But it wasn't commercial and it still wasn't very good. You are totally right though. He completely dropped the Batman/Bruce Wayne character. And the Penguin in anyone elses hands would have probably just been a pale imitation of Burgess Meredith. But the movie doesn't hold up from start to finish. It doesn't hold onto the total promise of first one as an origin. I won't even get into how bad the next two are though.

I'd bet awfulness of the two Schumacher films may be the one thing, ever, that all of us here can agree upon.

Bruce I explained why I had PeeWee at 9. I honestly do not remember anything about it except that i DID sorta like it. I know there was a scene at the start where he walks along a brick wall... and his house is filled with gadgets? I dunno. THAT'S why it's no.9. And as I said, I was 11 when I saw Mars Attacks! at the cinema and thought it was a hoot and still do. Sleepy Hollow... well, I love the sets and costumes and the atmosphere and the mystery is always intriguing and I love the performances too.

And, thankyou Jeff, the original Batman IS sorta dull in parts and the songs ARE outdated - I am one of Prince's biggest fans but my god! I loved Batman Returns' big gothic sets, Catwoman, the spiced up dialogue, the much better fight sequences and other certain setpieces. My favourite bit is the small scene where the guy doing backflips steals the baby... i don't know why.

I should point out that I basically love anything with those massive old run down gothic cities. They are always so intricately designed. Everything from the Batmans to City of Lost Children to Sin City all the way back even to Metropolis. Hell, I even liked the sets of the otherwise horrible Super Mario Bros.

I agree with David's comments. This is the best major studio movie released so far this year. However, Greg Araki's "Mysterious Skin" is the best film I've seen this year.

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