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Whoa - all five previous Rocky movies were 'quality'?

And where do you find the time to see movies three times when you didn't like them once? It boggles the mind.

Non of these guys are ready to have a late career renaissance that deals with deconstructing the myth, except Peter O'Toole. See Rocky Balboa if you must, but see Venus if you dare -- a high-concept human comedy (I know it when I see it), Venus is it and not so much unlike a good old Woody Allen movie.

I respect the film... the hard work put into the worst films... and won't just trust impulse whe I feel this strongly... I trust perspective over reaction.

I have, as always, seen all of the awards season movies more than once. After just watching
"Flight 93" on A&E, it is time for yet another U93 viewing.

And how many times have you seen that one, since you didn't hate it? 10? 20?

(of course, I kid - Would that I could see movies for a living.)

You're pretty spot-on about it, but really, three times?

Poland, you saw the film three times so obviously you at least attempted to give it a chance, review-wise, but I'm a tad dissapointed you didn't think much of it.

I am looking forward to it and it does seem like the kind of film that could capture the Xmas box office (who would have thought that a year ago?) - Variety and H. Reporter and some others are giving it positive reviews, we'll see what happens. Everyone I have spoken to wants to see the flick, obviously its 'over the hill underdog' story is appealing to many.

I'm glad Bill Conti is back in full force though. Visually the trailer looked interesting, grainy, hand-held, blue-lighting in certain scenes etc

"And as distracting as the varicose veins in Stallone’s chest were (and I am sure someone will tell me what medical condition they are really from), I can get over that."

Trying to add Sly to a list that already includes Kevin Smith?

I wouldn't mind Sly and Kevin Smith on that list. That this isn't very good is as unsurprising as the cream-in-the-jeans reaction from the AICN crowd. I don't know anyone who wants to see it, but I know plenty who laugh every time they see the trailer or a TV clip.

I'm not sure why you watched it three times yet say that you wish you wouldn't have seen it at all. Most films don't hold up to three viewings in a row much less two. The filmmaking seams just start to show. Rocky Balboa looks to be more of the same--which is a good thing for those who enjoy the others. You're just digging too deep. The Nintendo vs. Xbox analogy doesn't make a lot of sense either.

Three times?! Martyr. The Passion of the Dave.

I doubt Nolan would have anything to do with Sly, but Guillermo del Toro would probably put him in prosthetics and turn him into a literal monster. Probably not a bad idea -- it worked for Mickey Rourke.

In Criticland, Poland would called a Sarrisite rather than a Paulette.

I wish Poland was this thorough in his analysis back when he was giving positive notices to movies like Detroit Rock City, Drop Dead Gorgeous, and Finding Forrester.

Since movies, more than any other art form, work on your emotions, I believe trusting your immediate reaction is usuallly the best policy. The movies you love are the ones that hold you long after you know what's coming. Why do you think people still watch Jaws so many years later?

This is why I suspect Poland's criticism to United 93. I believe it is impossible not to have a visceral reaction to that movie on first viewing. Later viewings reveal just how brilliantly crafted and executed the movie is. People who piss and moan about U93 or Pursuit of Happyness are just wanting to show how "hard" they are. I'm not impressed. It takes a sharp sense of your emotions to tell the difference between genuine emotions and being jerked around. It's the difference between The Doctor and Patch Adams.

He watched it three times because he wanted to see what his body was going to look like 20 years from now. "The face is not so far from the original, but the body looks like it's been put together out of spare parts. The glossy skin tone of the Rocky who appeared in "I," "II" and "III" has given way to a torso so suety in texture and pallor that at any given moment you expect birds to roost on him. Don't get me wrong: He's in better shape than most of us. But gravity remains an unmerciful thing."

http://www.newsday.com/features/printedition/ny-ffmov5014551dec17,0,828024.story

"That this isn't very good is as unsurprising as the cream-in-the-jeans reaction from the AICN crowd."

Yeah, because we're the only audience that's embraced the film, and Dave's negative review is the consensus opinion. Narrow that perspective!

Though Stallone piles on the sentiment in the early going (I could've done with less of Rocky revisiting every single significant location from the first film on the anniversary of Adrian's death, even though it does culminate in an affecting, non-comedic breakdown from Paulie), I think the movie ends up earning most of it. Unlike the last three installments (and some of the second), it's not a cartoon; in fact, they do something in the fight to make it believable that a fiftysomething-year-old in excellent shape could go the distance with a top heavyweight. (BTW, Foreman post-forty was so much more fascinating for his unorthodox technique and refusal to sit down between rounds. That comeback was considered a joke until he went the distance with Holyfield.) It's also cool that Dixon isn't some stock villain, especially given this series' questionable racial politics. He's just a great fighter with no one to give him a great fight in his prime.

And Dave... "Why does Rocky fight?" You've seen the film three times, right? Um, there's that scene outside the restaurant with his son that's also in the trailers and TV spots, where he sounds a lot like every other boxer who couldn't walk away from the sport (when money wasn't a factor)?

I get you not digging the movie. I just think you're working too hard on this one.

Sorry Mr. Smith but the AICN crowd is extremely predictable. It is hardly shocking that they loved the movie. You can guess how they will receive a movie and be right 10 times out of 10.

I'm not hard Jimmy and I don't pretend to be. U93 just didn't do it for me. I respected and admired it, and certainly didn't hate it, but I don't think it is a masterpiece.

So David Edelstein, Robert Koehler, Owen Gleiberman and Ed Douglas were all at Butt-Numb-a-Thon, too?

Are you missing my point intentionally? I said the AICN crowd is extremely predictable and it is hardly shocking that you all creamed your pants for Rocky Balboa. Apparently you are all very sensitive as well. Every single person to write a BNAT wrap-up raved about every movie they saw. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings but most of the time it is pointless to put any faith into a review written by an AICN writer.

Just a bit of trivia: So Stallone is actually topping Terrence Malick's record for longest time in between films directed? But I think he falls two years shy of George Lucas'. Malick went 78-98, Lucas 77-99. Sly pulled off 85-06.

Not that anyone was keeping score or gives a shit; Just thought it was surprising how long it's been since Sly's last *official* directing job.

*Obviously it's not as momentous as the other directors I mentioned, since a) Sly was primarily thought of as an actor, in which capacity he's never been out of people's minds for too long, and b) rumor has it he ghost-directed many of his late-80s/early 90s vehicles anyway.

No, you're missing my point, Stella's Boy, and I'll pay you the courtesy of not assuming that it's intentional. Again, your post (absent the first immaterial line):

"That this isn't very good is as unsurprising as the cream-in-the-jeans reaction from the AICN crowd. I don't know anyone who wants to see it, but I know plenty who laugh every time they see the trailer or a TV clip."

You're relying on a) Poland's negative review, b) the enthusiastic BNAT response and c) anecdotal evidence based on a derisive reaction to the trailers and TV spots in order to dismiss the film while many respected mainstream critics (a majority at this point) have positively reviewed the film. This isn't just some silly, over-the-top fanboy reaction ala V FOR VENDETTA (though DP loved that one); people genuinely like this movie. Turning this into an AICN vs. The World issue is misguided.

Are we clear?

Eh, I guess I agree with Jeremy. But it sure is fun to make fun of AICN. Remember when Harry and Co. got invited to a private screening of BLOW, and came back championing it as "better than Goodfellas"? Then, conspicuously, when it opened to moderate-to-mild critical enthusiasm and so-so box office, it was magically nowhere to be found on any of their year-end lists?

Sure, the big fanboy-geek movies that receive hysterical overreaction from AICN (HELLBOY, BLADE II, V FOR VENDETTA, etc) and the Harry-overreaction pieces based on schmoozing studios (GODZILLA) tend to go down in infamy, but for my money Blowgate is a classic, sterling example of AICN in its full glory.

I am hardly trying to turn this into an AICN vs. The World issue Jeremy. Maybe you're right and it is a wonderful film, but I stand by what I have been saying. It is not surprising to me, nor should it be surprising to anyone, that the AICN crew loves this movie. Everyone loved everything that they saw at BNAT. Are we clear?

On a side note, why doesn't Harry Knowles just lose weight? I mean, really, he could just eat a little less and shave that ridiculous beard. Would that be so hard?

It's funny that Harry fantasizes about certain actresses and movie characters. It's always been my view that aggressively overweight people haven't earned the right to sex fantasies, unless they're picturing other fatties. I know if I looked like Harry, no way could I, even in my mind, picture myself with beautiful actresses. It would be too comical and would require far too much suspension of disbelief, and my sex fantasy would be overtaken by a necessity of narrative to explain how and why my tubby ass was taxing some 100-pound hottie. By that time, I'd fucking fall asleep.

"Everyone loved everything that they saw at BNAT. Are we clear?"

Keep those assumptions comin'! I'm not about to do battle with AICN's search engine to find the towrap-ups that included a few mixed-to-negative assessments of the new movies shown, but they're there and reflective of post-movie discussions I had with folks who were lukewarm on stuff like BLACK SNAKE MOAN (which I personally liked), DREAMGIRLS (loved), to SMOKIN' ACES (dug the action and absurd tone). The only new movie loved across the board, flaws and all? ROCKY BALBOA. (That said, 300 had very few detractors.) Shocking, no?

Okay, the Defense of AICN bores me as much as it must bore y'all, so let's kill it because there's no getting past ten years worth of precoceived notions.

And I meant "wrap-up" not, um, "towrap-up".

I was just about to ask you what a towrap is. I read just about every wrap-up posted on AICN. I recall one guy not liking Black Book. Other than that, it was nothing but adoration from every single person for every single movie, from Rocky Balboa to 300 to Black Snake Moan to Smokin' Aces. But of course the AICN crowd is going to go crazy for 300 and Smokin' Aces. The defense of AICN should bore you. There's not much to defend.

I just looked at all the official BNAT write-ups on AICN, and they all gave Black Snake Moan rave reviews.

To be fair, all the reviews of Dreamgirls weren't ecstatic, but none were hostile or overtly negative.

Is AICN really worth arguing about? Why not talk about the merits or lack thereof in the movie itself?

Christ, I'm droppin' gems in this thread. More people should compliment me on being awesome.

In general, this is one serious crew (not D-Po, who owns, but his legion). You guys are movie geeks; Have some fun. Jesus, you guys post like you're reading the Lawncare Blog or the Catholic Mass Blog, not the Hot Blog. "Actually, they were positive." "Actually, it had some detractors." Christ, it's called IRONY and PERSONALITY.

At this point I only keep coming back because I'm trying to discern David Poland, Rod Lurie, and Jimmy Kimmel. I'm convinced they're all the same guy. They all also seem like guys who'd really like Boston Market.

Of course Dreamgirls got mixed-to-negative reviews from the BNATers and fanboys in general. Fanboys have always had problems with pop musicals and race. I can't begin to count the many times a Will Smith-related item has been posted on AICN and the talkbackers immediately went into some offensive rant on how Smith is going to provide a rap song for the end titles. I remember when a dumb rumor about a Smith-starring remake of Bridge on the River Kwai was flooded with talkbackers talking about how there wasn't any hip-hip during World War II. I find this kind of "joking" to be bordering on racism.

Harry's unwillingness to appreciate Hip Hop culture in this day in age is a little sad. (It is only matched by his boasting having "not read the book." I wonder if he still hasn't read All the President's Men?)

\

Guess who. Who I'd like to meet:
Creative Types. I've recently entered into the realm of producing films. Yes, that means there's a couch right over there with your name on it darling. Ahem, I mean - if you're drunk in love with cinema, and you happen to be talented. Let me hear about it. Like you, I love 5 hour conversations about the most insignificantly direly important facets of filmmaking.

I need to throw up now.

Nice end paragraph, LexG.

T Holly...Huh?

LexG, yeah, a few good zingers, but now you sound like a bombing comic: "Hey, is this microphone on? I've gotten better laughs at a funeral. But seriously, folks...."

Oh, Harold. "I know if I looked like Harry, no way could I, even in my mind, picture myself with beautiful actresses. It would be too comical...."

Harold's casting couch, ain't it cool? He's a producer now.

I ain't seein' Rocky VI and I ain't alone.

I've been over AICN for several years now, the only reviewer on that website that I trust is "Quint".

I don't think you count as a producer until you've actually, you know, produced something.

"I've been over AICN for several years now, the only reviewer on that website that I trust is "Quint". "

Ha! That's funny, Hopscotch. Quint's even more conspicuously corrupt than Harry Knowles. At least Knowles admits that he likes a lot of crappy movies, so it's somewhat believable he might like, say, Godzilla. Quint pretends he has taste.

Consensus opinion from AICN is worthless, especially from BNAT. Hell, consensus opinion from mainstream critics is worthless, imo. I read reviews to get a sense of what a movie's like, an individual critic's opinion of a movie is worth very little to me.

Actually, I take that back. A critic's *negative* opinion is worth very little to me. I do not know how many movies I really enjoy that are trashed by certain critics or by people around me. However a positive review by a critic, if well written, will in fact sway me. I only really want to see Dreamgirls because of Poland. Little Miss Sunshine didn't appeal to me from the trailers and commercials. etc

Any predictions on the box office? If nothing else, it's a crowd pleaser.

LexG.
Winner - Best Appearance of a Newcomer

Keep dropping those bombs my little friend, you're a breath of fresh air around here.

Word from non AICN crew at BNAT was that many of the new releases were fairly mediocre with the pre and post (Pans & COM) films being miles stronger than anything in the lineup.

What's COM? Why must everything be an acronym these days? I mean, WTF?

I still love Drop Dead Gorgeous and Finding Forrester. And was I really that in love with the underrated Detroit Rock City?

I hated studying Sarris as a college kid. Kael is fine, but awfully snotty. I like to think I am somewhere in between.

I'm sure some people will love Rocky. For me, a bad TV movie.

And my reaction to U93 happened on first viewing. Greengrass is a great director. He had a so-what script that was neither briliant minimalist drama nor emotional in an intimate way. And I have to say, I am in much the same place on Children of Men. There is so much to like about C.O.M. but I will be watching a third time with a notepad, trying to figure out what the action means on a higher level than an arthouse version of Running Man.

"an arthouse version of Running Man."

And what's wrong with that? Sounds pretty good.

I would say that the script is beside the point of United 93; it was emotional to me and minimalist to me merely by being nondescript and bland.

Jimmy the Gent wrote:

"Harry's unwillingness to appreciate Hip Hop culture in this day in age is a little sad. (It is only matched by his boasting having "not read the book." I wonder if he still hasn't read All the President's Men?)"

I'm gonna have to call you on that one as Harry Knowles picked "Hustle & Flow" as his nr. 1 pick for the best film of 2005. He may be sad, but it's not due to his lack of being able to appreciate hip hop culture.

"Drop Dead Gorgeous" is fantastic. And God, I hope "Rocky Balboa" is too. Seeing it tonight.

I'm just depressed that "Rocky" and AICN are being talked about in the same breath. Maybe Stallone can do his "Rambo IV" q&a over at MCN.

I'm sorry Dave didn't like Rocky Balboa as I have been looking forward to it for as long as I knew it was being made.

That aside, if someone had told me a year ago that Rocky 6 would be 'Certified Fresh' on Rotten Tomatoes...

Not that critical consensus in any direction really means anything, but still, Stallone should be very happy with himself. He is an American icon and its good to see him back at the top of his game. His Q & A at AICN has been refreshingly candid.

Looking forward to Rambo IV too. Something tells me the crix won't be so kind to that one.

Isn't it possible that if critics are unkind to Rambo IV, it could be due to the fact that it isn't a good movie? Imagine that, Rambo IV not being a good movie.

I have been reading Stallone's Q&A. There are some entertaining stories, but overall I think he comes across as a self-important macho blowhard who isn't half as smart as he thinks he is.

Of course everyone was expecting Rocky IV to suck also and The Good German to be Oscar calibre...

I'm just sayin'.

Of course everyone was expecting Rocky VI to suck also and The Good German to be Oscar calibre...

I'm just sayin'.

"a self-important macho blowhard who isn't half as smart as he thinks he is."

That's what I thought when I read the transcript of Matt Damon with Chris Matthews.

Am I the only one who found it a tad bit odd to find Stallone being interviewed by Pat Robertson on The 700 Club while promoting Rocky Balboa? I mean, far be it from me to make fun of anyone's genuine, deeply-felt religious beliefs. But isn't Stallone the guy who began his career in A Party at Kitty and Stud's?

But that's okay, he never said he was perfect in the past or present.

Now if he makes the sequel...

Well, hell, Nicol, he's making sequels to everything else, so why not? I'm expecting to hear about F.I.S.Ted Again any day now.

If 'F.I.S.Ted Again' gets made then there's gotta be room for a 'Paradise Alley' joke out there.

That made me laugh.

I guess now isn't a good time to confess that I actually quite liked Paradise Alley when it first came out (though I haven't seen it again since then).

Hey Nicol, I agree with you. Chris Matthews is a blowhard.

Huh...Wha?

JeffMCM? What the hell are you doin' here? It's 5 days 'till Christmas; shouldn't you be out smashing a manger somewhere or telling a little child that Santa doesn't exist?

Nicol, I love Christmas. If anything, your crowd would be the ones saying Santa doesn't exist because he's taking the attention that should go to Jesus.

Joe,

I've actually never seen Paradise Alley, but I must say Nighthawks was one of the first films I rented with my dad on VHS, so I've always had a soft spot for Stallone. My dad (who was Italian) was a huge fan and his films ran a lot in my house when I was a youngin'. My dad took me to all of 'em.

Stallone gets made fun of a lot, but there is a generation of us who grew up with his films; it's great to have him back.

"If anything, your crowd would be the ones saying Santa doesn't exist because he's taking the attention that should go to Jesus."

Doesn't usually work out this way in the real world though, eh?

http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html

I know it looks like too absurd to be true.

Sorry to take the thread wayyyy off-topic.

I didn't see Matt Damon on Chris Matthews Nicol but that isn't difficult to believe. I also agree that Matthews is a blowhard, and I love Christmas as well. What a shock that so many of us liberals love it.

Just got back from "Rocky Balboa." I must admit that I just loved it. I'm sure that's a whole lot of nostalgia talking - I was born in '76 and raised on the series - but it was just a damn good time at the movies. I'm so glad Stallone had the chance to make this.

The audience seemed to dig it as well, by the way. I hope the word of mouth spreads on this one.

Nicol: I must admit that Sylvester Stallone is one of the few -- the very few -- actors for whom I (accurately) predicted stardom. Within about a year or so back in the early '70s, I saw him in The Lords of Flatbush (a kinda-sorta forerunner of the Happy Days TV show) and Capone (in which he played Frank Nitti to Ben Gazzara's Alfonse), and on both occasons I was struck by his screen presence.

BTW: I know this will be a lance to the heart for some of you haters out there, but I also predicted stardom for Renee Zellweger and Matthew McConaughey (and wrote as much in Variety) when I reviewed The Return of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (later known as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Next Generation) at SXSW many years ago.

The clearest "that person is going to be a star" moment I've ever had was watching Reese Witherspoon in "A Far Off Place." One for one, baby.

Just saw Rocky Balboa. I admit it could have been better, but I will say that this was certainly not terrible. Lord knows we have seen much worse films from Stallone. Sure it went from a little drawn out to rushed at the end. Nor did I come out of the theatre looking for someone to pull a Rocky Balboa on, but here is what I take from it....

While things in this movie may seem a little stupid to some of you now, the people who have been wondering around this Planet long enough to see the original Rocky in a movie theater will identify with the deeper meaning to this final chapter of the story. Not getting some of the characters too involved and somewhat odd at times, kept the focus on what becomes part of life. It gets harder as you get older. Case in point, will this movie get nominated for 10 Oscars like the original? NO! Rocky spells it out in the movie and as the years clip by, it will be more identifiable to those who don’t have to think about the second phase of your life yet. GOD bless to those of you who don’t.... ;-)

However, when that day comes when you realize on day that you are going to more funerals than weddings, there is appreciation for a basic good old movie that has a character that you not only grew up with, that character has also grown up with you. If that character can make you do some self reflection and maybe, just maybe even inspire you to do some of the things you may have never let go of inside, my hat is off. Congratulations!

This last chapter of Rocky is so very basic, yet so very complex at the same time. Stallone has made this the last of the Rocky series and he has a very close personal relationship with his character. In the end of the movie there is something I hope everyone can see. In the scene after the fight when he is walking back through the tunnel and he turns around to say good-bye to the crowd, look into his eyes... Although this is supposed to be Rocky saying goodbye for the final time to the crowd of fans, look further and deeper and you will see that simultaneously Sylvester Stallone the PERSON, waving to all of the movie extras/FANS and saying goodbye to Rocky Balboa the charter for good. You can clearly see virtually every emotion expressed in his eyes for those of us who have identified with Rocky for all of these years and allowed him to ride this journey to its final destination.

So the next scene is very fitting.... Notice the chair is no longer there...

Art imitating life? Such as life, we have lost someone "although fictional" to father time.

Farewell Rocky Balboa, it has been a good ride. We will miss you...

"But I'd love to see what Guillermo del Toro or Chris Nolan would do with this guy."

I'd actually love to see Robert Rodriguez or Quentin Tarantino use Stallone. I can picture him in something badass like Grindhouse.

Rodriguez already used Stallone in one of the SPY KIDS movies, and he wasn't bad at all. I know I'm a minority of one on this, but I always thought Sly had a real gift for comedy; go back and look at OSCAR again--his timing is spot on.

The NES's (which I assume you're referring to with "Nintendo") boxing game, Punch Out, is a lot more fun than something like Fight Night or any of the more recent boxing games. I don't really know what you're getting at there...

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