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WGAS?

Screen award nominations will be announced January 11, 2007.

Thank goodness it's not more the same six taking the top award. Good to see some critics are still capable of the occasional independent thought and of getting a bit away from oscar-influence groupthink. :)

"will continue to bolster hopes that Greengrass will pull off the upset at DGA and AMPAS in the weeks to come."

Pull off an upset and get nominated or pull off a ROman Polanski and deny Martin Scorsese his long-deserved Oscar?

Yeah, good to see these guys for not being entirely unoriginal. I wish it was even more crazy though like Dern winning Best Actress or something.

Dave, "Chivo"? Have I missed something?

Doesn't it seem a little odd that Roger Ebert is claiming a Best Picture of the Year quote for Pan's Labyrinth? Didn't he miss, like, most of the year?

Also, I loved this:

"The results of the meeting were dedicated to the memory of Robert Altman."

I dedicate this reply to Robert Altman too!

"Doesn't it seem a little odd that Roger Ebert is claiming a Best Picture of the Year quote for Pan's Labyrinth? Didn't he miss, like, most of the year?"

That's never stopped any quote whore who's used that tired old cliche before... as much as we want to deify Ebert since he got sick, we can't forget that he'd be leading the quote whore race this year if he didn't get knocked out of the running by his illness.

Define "the quote whore race." The term implies somebody who will say something they don't necessarily believe for the sake of being quoted. That has never once struck me as Ebert's agenda.

Sometimes the ads will truncate a quote to make it sound better than it was intended. But that's typically not a problem with an Oscar-worthy film. And everyone remembers the fake critic quote scandal.

"The term implies somebody who will say something they don't necessarily believe for the sake of being quoted. "

Well, in that case, Jeffrey Lyons shouldn't be on EFilmCritic's list. I know Jeffrey and I know that he wouldn't say he liked something if he didn't and wouldn't give a quote unless he really liked a movie. Not sure about Pete Hammond, but there's definitely different groups here...the real long-standing critics and people who attend junkets, who realy have no critical background, don't write reviews and are giving quotes for the publicists to use.

Sure, I understand that these people exist, but I'm saying that Ebert's not one of them.

I would say that Ebert gets so many pulled quotes because he's Ebert and no other critic or critical organization comes close to the clout that his name/recommendation has for ordinary folk.

I haven't seen that Ebert quote... where did you guys see it?

Roger's rule is that if he wrote or said it, they can quote it. He is not a quote whore, but he has allowed things like positive quotes being used for a movie he panned.

Curious, as he has taken no year end position.

Like Mr. Lyons, apparently, Earl Dittman has always claimed to "just like movies!"

And now that I look at it, Ebert hasn't even written a review for Pan's Labyrinth. The review on Ebert's site was written by Jim Emerson.

"Chivo"? Have I missed something?

It's his nickname. You can hear it dropped a lot during that Charlie Rose interview, even though I don't believe ANY of them clearly explained who this "Chivo" guy was.

I'm sure Ebert has probably been shipped end of year screeners, so he'll catch up eventually and who knows, maybe even release a list.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ebert mention Pan's in his Cannes coverage last May?

Well I pick: Dreamgirls, Little Children, Babel, Little Miss Sunshine, Half Nelson, Jesus Camp, V for Vendetta, Shut Up and Sing, 12 and Holding and The Dead Girl for my top 10. Bubbling just under are: Letters From Iowa Jima, The Queen, the Departed, The Sicnece of Sleep and Fast Food Nation.

If I could vote for the Oscars, I'd pick Ryan Gosling, Helen Mirren, Jenifer Hudson and Jackie Earle Hailey. And director, even though I like other films better, has to be Scorsese. He deserves it.

"Sure, I understand that these people exist, but I'm saying that Ebert's not one of them."

I love how selective some memories can be. I remember years where you could not open a newspaper without seeing "Two Thumbs Up!" on every movie, even dogs like Hollywood Homicide. (I remember that one specifically.) But that's fine... guy gets ill and suddenly, people forget all the bad and he's become deified among critics. Sure, there's a lot worse but he was pretty bad for a long time.

"Like Mr. Lyons, apparently, Earl Dittman has always claimed to "just like movies!""

Oh, Jeffrey Lyons certainly doesn't fit that category. I know that there are plenty of movies he doesn't like and that he loathes. With so many movies not being screened for critics at all (only junket people), it's harder to get quotes from real critics. (that's where people like Dittman and Fischer and Shawn Levy come in)

Ebert long complained about encapsulating the reviews in the thumb system. And just because those thumbs showed up in a lot of newspaper ads doesn't mean they were designed to get his name in the newspapers. He was quoted more because, as Movielocke noted, Ebert earned his credibility.

So don't start combing his reviews for a shifty motive. Sometimes, despite all reason, a critic just likes a lousy movie. I would think you, the guy who liked Lady in the Water, should understand this.

Roger became more thumb generous after Gene died. HIs rational has been that he is doing the TV review based on what the audience for that movie is expecting.

I don't want to get into a Jeffrey Lyons wrestling match. All I can tell you is that the two names I am sure to see pull-quoted on most bad movies are Lyons and Travers.

I personally think Roger was MUCH better with Gene than with Richard Roeper, and ever since Richard Roeper has been trying to carry the show on his own, we all realize how much better Ebert was at one point in his career....probably why I've been able to forget how many problems I had with Ebert over the last few years.

Yeah, I don't think I would want to get into a wrestling match over Jeffrey. I like him well enough, but I don't know him *that* well. :)

"I would think you, the guy who liked Lady in the Water, should understand this."

In 45 years, they'll reissue Lady in the Water, and it'll be deemed a classic like "Gone with the Wind"...everyone will wonder what happened to that guy clever enough to take the piss out of his own personality by putting himself in a role that would get him such a critical thrashing, and people will finally understand the irony of the movie. At that time, I hope someone wil come find me at the old age home and apologize :)

In 45 years, my dying words will be, "What the hell did anybody see in that crap?" Then somebody will remind me of your review, and I will have a stroke.

Congrats, Edouglas, you win the award for most ridiculous thing that I've read lately. My take is that Shyamalan is less 'clever' by putting himself in a role in his own movie than he is 'arrogant' to assume that he could get away with it...in fact, his arrogance permeates the entire movie and renders it into something suffocating and putrid.

I guess I could go look at your review online to figure out what the brilliant 'irony' was that everybody missed...but I have more important things to do.

How far in that cheek do you have that tongue, Ed?

Because if you seriously think LADY IN THE WATER will ever be considered "a classic like GONE WITH THE WIND," you are drunk or stupid or both.

GONE WITH THE WIND was a monster hit out the gate. Not just a hit. A cultural phenomenon. Based on a novel that was an equally big cultural phenomenon. And the film's reputation has endured over the years because of how incredibly well-made it was.

LADY IN THE WATER was greeted by indifference and hostility, aside from a few Shyamalan ass-sniffers who still desperately push the idea that "he was kidding! It's ironic! It's a fairy tale!"

Your statement makes me laugh as much as when Dean Devlin told Roger Christian not to worry about the bad reviews for BATTLEFIELD EARTH because "no one understood 2001 at first, either, and that's a classic now!"

Time does not turn shit to gold, man. That just ain't the way it works.

Well, it turns out this discussion was all for nothing. I just misread the ad. The "best movie of the year" quote was actually atribed to Stephen King (?!) Nice that an author gets his quotes on stuff now.

It's because he has a column in Entertainment Weekly.

"How far in that cheek do you have that tongue, Ed?"

Obviously far enough that people didn't realize I was taking the piss. I liked the movie. Shyamalan was the worst part of it for sure, the guy can't act, but I still liked Giamatti, Balaban and the fact that he was trying something a little different. (Obviously, too different for those who liked his crappy earlier movies like Unbreakable and Signs.)

Jiminy Christmas!

The problem with Lady in the Water wasn't that all the rest of us didn't get it, or that it was outside of our comfort zone. The problem was that it was a self-indulgent, undisciplined mess that wouldn't have gotten a passing grade in Screenwriting 101 if it didn't have Shyamalan's name on it.

Shyamalan clearly wanted to say "screw you" to his critics, which made it all the more painful and embarassing for him that the movie just didn't work.

As we walked out of PAN'S LABYRINTH, one of my friends said, "That's what LADY IN THE WATER wanted to be."

"As we walked out of PAN'S LABYRINTH, one of my friends said, "That's what LADY IN THE WATER wanted to be.""

This is true.

What a strange thing to agree with. Don't you mean "Lady in the Water is what Pan's Labyrinth wanted to be"?

So in the future, when LitW is considered to be a classic on the level of Gone with the Wind, does that mean that Pan will be a Lord of the Rings sandwich with Titanic as the meat?

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