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"Where is the Bill O’Reilly character? Rush Limbaugh? "

The problem of SNL is that it is stuck in the "counter-culture" of its incarnation in the 70's. As such it rarely if acknowledges the "right-wing" culture or understands it in any meaningful way except for in the most cliched (ie. shopworn) ways.

I am not a fan particularly of Jon Stewart - but - as a political satirist, it is at least his job to understand the players of right wing culture. People such as say Limbaugh or Peggy Noonan.

SNL seems to exist in a time warp and I suspect only can give the most obvious cheezy jokes because the performers are not products of political culture, they are products entertainment culture which doesn't even know who the majority of right-wing people are. Do you think Amy Poelher would even know who a Peggy Noonan was? Do you think Tina Fey would even know who a William F Buckley was? Probably not. They may know who Limbaugh is but probably have never listened to him. Hence, what to political watchers are major figures get completely left out by the "satirists". The comedy suffers as a result.

You cannot satirize something unless you understand it first and given that SNL plays first to high school and college students, I am not at all surprised that the humour has gotten this stale and lame.

I have always said, MAD TV, by no means conservative, had a far more sharp understanding of culture than SNL ever has in recent years. Because they had to try harder to be different.

I mean has there ever even been an SNL skit that acknowledges the culture of political correctness?

SNL is still a product of the era in which it was created. Much like Rolling Stone magazine, it is lazy, tired and bloated and people still watch/read more out of habit than any real love of the product I suppose.

I mean Al Franken writing a sketch! What's next? Are they gonna bring back Tom Davis.

There's no reason anyone should be expecting anything other than crap from SNL these days considering that is how it has been for at least the last 8 years, particularly when it comes to political humor.

Does 'right-wing culture' consist entirely of former speechwriters and pundits?

It's still finding its footing this season, which often happens. Three shows in three weeks at the start of the season, plus the primetime Weekend Updates they have on the docket means they're probably already exhausted and spread thin. Last year had a lot of good stuff and SNL is still essential. There are very few shows that have a ton of great skits, it's about how good they are when they're great (go back and watch SNL from its heyday, it still had pretty much the same hit to miss ratio with the skits).

David is right, this week was lame and deballed. I have a feeling they'll come back strong next week. Kings of Leon were awesome though.

Dave - pretty good piece. I was stunned they didn't do a Palin email bit. That, IMO, was a tee-up, whichever way someone wanted to take it.

The problem I see them having is they've drunk the kool-aid about their political sway. If they nail Obama, he's not coming on, and that's more important. Palin, most likely, won't be on because of the time frame and Poehler wouldn't want to give her the platform.

As for Bill and Rush, they've tried them and it doesn't work. Hannity, maybe.

'Time frame'? For Palin to appear on SNL would be an amazing coup for their campaign - it would show (a) that she's tough and not afraid to hang out in the lions' den, (b) that she's not afraid of a good-natured ribbing (or not so good, whatever), (c) that she's smart and funny enough to deal with the show, and (d) it's a platform to a large young audience.

But it won't happen because they know (c) would be failure.

I've said it before here and I'll say it again...the sooner we "adults" realize SNL isn't made for us anymore, the happier we'll be. I seriously fell asleep before Weekend Update even came on. The show is just bad bad bad this season and last. Keenan Thompson should be fired....he's the anti-funny.

I think Rush Limbaugh is beyond satire. Really. It's like trying to do a spoof of the Oscars. What can you possibly do that's more ridiculous than what you're trying to burlesque?

Well, Joey, by that standard, the entire last month of the McCain campaign is beyond satire.

Joey? Well, Davey: I see that Jay Roach just won an Emmy for directing Recount. You weren't one of those guys who were saying he couldn't pull off this movie after Sydney Pollack had to drop out, right?

I wish I could say it was a good movie and not just the politically right choice.

I didn't write much about the film, ever, so no, I am not "one of those guys." I think Roach is very talented.

Still, the film was mediocre. Not as good as any of the Gelbart films for HBO.

Jeff - you can't be serious. This woman gets railed for being too prepped a speaker - so that means she couldn't do SNL? It's the opposite. She's comfortable in front of an audience, trained for the camera, and has, as Clinton put it, "intuitive skills". If she did SNL, she could probably correct some media perception - which is why Obamaites wouldn't want her on.

Lorne would take her in a heartbeat. I'm sure he's put a feeler out to McCain over it and there's no way he'd put her in a script that was a putdown. Poehler and Fey would object and sit out, no question.

Er, Martin: She's obviously not as comfortable thinking on her feet as you might think. Or hope. If anyone were to ad-lib during her sketch, she might meltdown.

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/21/would-hillary-wuss-on-debate-like-palin/

And just which "perceptions" would be corrected, Martin?

Don,

Are you trying to be my friend? We have agreed way too often the past few months. Forget left or right...SNL is just not made for adults anymore.

Your comment is bang on.

Jeff,

SNL would never have Palin because she might do well. Period. It would humanize her and they just cannot have that. Fey and Poehler are not strong enough.

Humanize her? What planet do you live on?

Palin is THE Human Interest Candidate. It's the only leg she stands on.

Ben C,

I live on the planet where it is apparently OK for so-called progressives and feminists to claim it is all right to gang rape a strong woman and claim they are not divisive.

No, Nicol, I'm definitely not. It's just an odd circumstance of being honest and forthright with our views rather than you towing the company line. It is rather refreshing though.

Gang rape? Not only are your beliefs laughable. You seemingly lack any ability to make a workable analogy.

Martin, you're right (sort of). By Saturday Night Live standards, like with Hillary Clinton, she would be fine because everyone would very deferentially write a sketch for her and she'd read off the card etc. Since Tina Fey isn't a cast member I don't think her presence would even be necessary, and I don't know of any reason why Amy Poehler wouldn't take part.
On the other hand, if it was a sketch like the ones Giuliani used to do involving playing any kind of character other than "Sarah Palin", it would be a failure, but that's me using standards of actual television comedy instead of modern SNL.

Nicol, do you need constant reaffirmation that not all progressives and feminists agree with each other? Since you haven't said that you don't want John McCain to be devoured by panthers, I must assume that all Canadian conservatives are in favor of this tactic.

Does Sandra Bernhard represent "the left" any more than a few religious kooks calling for McCain's victory and quick death represent the right? Or are we to assume that is common thinking amongst the religious right? Maybe all conservatives are hoping for the same thing to happen. I mean it's just as easy for me to lump all conservatives into one category as it is for Nicol to repeatedly lump the left into one category.

Don,

"with our views rather than you towing the company line."

You're right Don, that's all I do. I don't believe anything I write. I just tow the company line. Unlike all of the progressives around here who always astound me with how they break new boundaries and never say anything I haven't already heard a million times before.

Sheesh...just when I though we were getting civil.

Jeff,

Can you find me some progressives and feminists who are defending Palin and decry the vulgarity unleashed upon her?

Stella,

"Does Sandra Bernhard represent "the left" any more than a few religious kooks calling for McCain's victory and quick death represent the right? "

If Sandra Bernhard were the only one making these sorts of statements you would have a point.

But she is not. And if you do not know that you have been living under a rock.

I guess the question regarding Sandra Bernhard's comments last week is Is it possible to go to far and have a Michael Richards moment on the subject of feminism in this culture? By Richards moment I mean get to the point where you end up humbled and humiliated to the point where you apologize on Letterman.
My guess is it would be very difficult to do criticizing Palin or McCain yet rather easy targeting Obama. The N word offends us, gang rape is just a joke. As long as it's consistant, my guess is a similar attack aimed at Clinton probably would have been met the same shrug. It's interesting.

MDOC,

Not quite clear where you are coming from. A similar comment aimed at Clinton from who?

Right-wing women such as Ann Coulter and Palin always get heaps of misogyny poured on them by left wing feminists (male and female).

They are never called to task. A Michael Richards moment could never happen in a Palin context because no one in the entertainment industry would ever hold such a comedian to account.

Remember Bernhard is just one of many in the mainstream left saying the most vile things about Palin. She is not the only one and is not an obscure comedian.

What it really proves is that progressive feminism was never about helping women, it was about creating a bunch of Stepford feminists who all thought the same way.

Who else has said something similar to what Bernhard said? I guess my residence under this rock has prevented me from reading about other similar comments from "the left."

Yes Ann Coulter has never said anything worthy of criticism. Saying it was a mistake to allow women to vote in the first place is nothing women should get upset about.

"Right-wing women such as Ann Coulter and Palin always get heaps of misogyny poured on them by left wing feminists (male and female)."

Ann Coulter is one of the women who heaps misogyny on herself. And Nicol, since I know you're sensitive to these issues, you must have been outraged by Coulter calling 9/11 widows "harpies" who "relished" their loss so they could "pose in Playboy."

Remember Bernhard is just one of many in the mainstream left saying the most vile things about Palin

How in the hell is Bernhard a member of the mainstream left. She is a fringe comedian, one who is not even known for political humor (if she is even known at all.

Rush and Coulter write books, go on talk shows, and base their whole careers on their political views, Bernhard has a burlesque show. You can hardly say that Bernhard's stupidity is reflective of the left. If you polled the republican convention I bet every single person could identify who Rush and Coulter are. If you polled the DNC I bet less than 10% would know who Bernard is.

Virtually all the political material on SNL these days is written by Jim Downey, who's a conservative. The rest is the usual dick/fart/ass/puke material that's been slowly taking over the show for the past decade or so. The "original" SNL was aimed at smart people who were tired of the pablum in prime-time. The current SNL is just as bad, if not worse, than the stuff it parodies; as Mel Brooks once sagely observed, "We mock the thing we are to be."

"Can you find me some progressives and feminists who are defending Palin and decry the vulgarity unleashed upon her?"

Perhaps not.

There is however, a certain Alaskan Governor saying that a woman who enters the race for President should be stong enough to stand up to the slings and arrows of the media, if she expects to be taken seriously as a candidate.

What was her name again....?

And this woman proudly calls herself a female dog. You know, pitbull with lipstick.

Nicol, you are the king of looking for information that confirms things that you already believed and in steering the discussion towards subjects that are largely irrelevant and distract from other subjects.

It's frustrating to be around you.

Also, Sarah Palin should do a press conference - a single one - before she does a late night comedy show. I think that's sort of what the American voters deserve.