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I agree, and hope the closeted studio execs get lovely resort accomodations...with huge walk in/out closets.

I dunno Dave. I agree with your sentiment about not punishing a states economy because of some religious creeps buuuut...aren't Mormons required to give like 10% of their annual income to the church? And don't a huge percentage of Mormons live IN Utah? Therefore, if there was a collective boycott of ski season there (and I agree that boycotting Sundance is silly talk) and Utah suffered then wouldn't those suffering be largely Mormon?

If they don't like that, they should have minded their own states business and stayed the hell out of ours.

From a logical standpoint, Dave is right. But I also agree with much of what Don said above. I know that it isn't fair to condem all Mormons or all Utah residents, but are any of those people who are against Prop 8 organizing and speaking out against their own? I'm not sure that targeting specific businesses out is really going to make the statement that needs to be made here on the national stage about staying out of the politics of other states (just as the government should be staying out of people's personal lives).

Ultimately, Utah had the second-lowest percentage of people that voted for Obama (34% to Wyoming's 33%), so as far as I'm concerned they can all rot.

DP's principle is sound. Let's imagine that Utah had a state constitutional amendment that would penalize homosexuals, wouldn't it be fair for Californians to spend our out-of-state money to find the opposition campaign? 'Utah' isn't the problem, it's specific individual Utahns and people from other states soo.

Oh dear.

Many analysis that came out after the election actually rationalized correctly that part of the reason SSM was voted down in California was - because- of Obama supporters.

Remember, Obama helped increase the African American and Hispanic vote to come out for him...that vote is largely morally conservative. Many outlets have pointed that out. That is the main reason why Obama has been contradictory at best on the issue. In this respect he is not dumb. He knows that SSM will not fly amongst a good portion of his contstituents.

Same thing happened in Toronto several years back. Statistically, TO had one of the highest ratios of anti-SSM backers in the country even though they overwhelmingly vote left-wing. It was the immigrant vote that is largely fiscally liberal but religious (Christian, Catholic, Orthodox Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu) and morally consevative.

Many articles in mainstream papers have pointed out that an Obama presidency might not actually be the death knell for moral consevatism that many think. It might actually mean the revivial of it in a way that no longer attaches it to the old image of white southerners. Trust me, Obama is aware of this. Read any of his interviews on SSM and he is accurtely aware of this.

I think you mean 'socially conservative', Nicol, not 'morally'.

I'm with Laz: let them rot. If this is how it's going to be. If they are going to come into another state, and get in matters they do not belong. Someone has to pay.

Moral conservatism? Oh yeah, THAT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE! Prop 8 will be shot down. It's unconstitutional. Always has been. Always will be. Only a backwards fucking hate-filled piece of shit would see it another way.

http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/archives/2008/11/sundance_boycot.html

Jeff,

No.

That is a severly idiotic idea (and I say this who was completely against the passing of Proposition 8).

Here's another idea: no matter who founded it, it took people in California to vote for Proposition 8. So why not boycott them? Oh wait...

Speaking of politics IO, don't forget you either owe me the post where I said I was going to vote for McCain, or an apology, or a dick-sucking. It's not going to be the first so I'll let you choose from the latter two options.

Thanks,

Bitch Perm

Nicol is from the north, so perhaps his terminology is a wee bit different. You know, like colour vs. color.

Because, taken literally, the idea of moral conservatism vs. moral liberalism is to suggest that the latter means a loosening of moral standards -- and not a different, but equal, set of morals. If that's what he's arguing, then he's simply unintelligent and can remain living in the 19th century and pronouncing nuclear as nucular.

Perm, to quote Magnolia: "You really need to shut the fuck up." If you do not remember that you stated as much in September, then you really are a sloppy mess.

Just accept you lost. This is a country where the people decide and they voted against gay marriage. Tons of money was spent of both sides, which is foolish because most people don't need a elaborate campaign to make up their minds about this subject. It's decided early on. Should McCain supporters walk around and protest Obama? There was a fair and democatic election, the will of the people have spoken.

There's a difference, Radewart.

When McCain lost the GOP was banned...

WASN'T...

Didn't John Stewart say it best when he said "leave it to Californians to vote to give chickens more leg room but then ban gay marriage." So true.

If the country was really run by the "will of the people", as opposed to constitutional tenets, then we'd still be counting black people as 3/5ths of a person. Thank god for progress. It'll come eventually.

"If the country was really run by the "will of the people", as opposed to constitutional tenets, then we'd still be counting black people as 3/5ths of a person. Thank god for progress. It'll come eventually."

Where on Earth do you think progress comes from if not from the "will of the people"? The last time I checked, it was the will of the people which prevailed over the constitutional tenets that counted blacks as only 3/5 a person. You're living in a fantasy land if you think progress simply occurs as if by magic.

As for the issue at hand, I would venture that resorting to bigotry and persecution of a religious group, even one as unpopular as the Mormons, is not a very good way of convincing someone who believes it will that legalizing gay marriage does not threaten religious freedom. Not to mention that Mormons make up a whopping 2% of California's population. I am pretty sure 2% does not equal 5 million votes. The reaction is irrational but understandable. The Mormons are low-hanging fruit, an easy target: visible and unpopular, and marginal. As has been pointed out, protesting those actually responsible for passing Prop 8 would be nearly impossible. After all, how do you protest the whole state of California? Throwing temper tantrums may feel good, but ultimately it is a sign of immaturity. Which is probably why in so many ways those in favor of gay marriage have in this instance replicated the worst behaviors of their foes.

Sorry IO, no. I never said such a thing. Since you know what I said and when I said it, why don't you link to it. Or prove yourself as terrible as McCain himself. No, scratch that...you're more like Bush. You have lied, and now you are engaged in a cover up. In my opinion, you are no better than the average baby-raping Republican.

Know this. Live it. Or as I've offered you...prove me wrong.

But you won't, because you're a liar. You make Obama cry.

"It’s wrong, but we’ll be working on it long after we have our first gay president. (Unless… hmmm… you gotta know that someone has floated that closet…)"

James Buchanan, he's your man. Although I'm not sure gays want to claim a guy who always ranks in the top two or three worst presidents ever. And how does one float a closet?

Bi(tch)g Perm...

I don't really care much for political topics, nor do I need to fight IO's fight for him.

But I too always thought you were a big Republican (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

A four-second Google search reveals the post "I'm a Republican" from May 6, and more recently some thread in August has you saying something about "...and say that as someone who likes McCain."

Neither of these, of course, are really about who you voted for and could easily have been said by many folks who ultimately went with Obama.

Again, I barely care, but just saying it's not like IO made it out of thin air and you've 100% come off as some firebrand liberal since way back when.

"Jeff,

No."

Nicol, first of all, I know what a "social conservative", is but I think the phrase "moral conservative" appears to mean a number of different things. In this particular context, it makes a lot more sense to argue that African- and Latino-Americans are 'socially conservative' because they tend to be relatively religious and, obviously, opposed to gay marriage.

Second, there's something wrong with you that makes you continuously snide and arrogant, despite the best efforts of people like myself to have a meaningful exchange with you. Thanks for the reminder that you don't want such things.

This is bullshit.

I'm not 100% for the boycott, but to those of you who say "it's the will of the people" or some such thing, just go fuck yourself, seriously. Unless you're ready for me come to your state and start a ballot initiative to vote on your heterosexual marriage.

Maybe we can start a ballot initiative to remove your children from the home if there's no father present? Maybe we can start an initiative to have a woman sterilized if she wants to have a baby but hasn't finished paying her student loans.

Sound unreasonable? Well guess what...

There is no defense of the Mormons. You can call them low-hanging fruit if you want, but they know exactly what they're doing.

Calling it wrong headed but acting in good faith is the moral equivalence of turning the other cheek when Grandpa complains about the negro at the coffee shop.

I hope they keep marching in California and keep making noise. After this amazing, watershed week, it is especially painful to see headlines trumpet the end of racism while prejudice lives on.

Boycotting Sun City had an impact. Maybe Park City needs it, too.

Hey, I'm all for banning ALL marriage.

While they're at it, can they ban having kids?

That would RULE.

At the very least, they should ban ALL MARRIAGE, GAY OR STRAIGHT, BEFORE THE AGE OF 3O.

But I guess that thwarts the bullshit AMERICANA where the FOOTBALL STAR marries the CHEERLEADER at age 22 and they live a street away from THEIR EQUALLY BORING AND SQUARE AS FUCK FAMILY.

22? More like 17 (see Palin, Bristol).

Lex, I see I made that Republican post so you'd kill yourself. Sadly, I failed.

BUT, I never said I'd vote for McCain even though I may have said I liked him, so IO is still a liar and owes me an apology for being a lying lair who lies.

However, I did see a post where I correctly predicted the failure of Speed Racer. IO assured us all it would be huge. He was wrong there, too. Don't mess with the Perm. You fail.

I should also add that I like McCain a lot less once the pod people took over him and he sold out.

Maybe the Mormons are getting back at the rest of America for banning polygamy? No one ever thought of that did they!! I say we ban sacred jammies to get back at them next.

hmmmmm...more boycott news from aravosis:

http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/never-ever-cross-show-queen.html

Uhm...there are better ways to fight for gay rights than boycotting a film festival. It seems petty and doesn't necessarily shed a very positive light on the gay movement.

Seeing various and sundry fretting about how terrible it would be to boycott Sundance is starting to make me think it would actually be a GREAT idea. Never happen, of course. But the fact that enough people are concerned enough about it to quiver over what a terrible idea it is makes me wonder. I'm not going, myself, but that was decided a while ago.

David Poland asks, "What would Harvey do?" Well, you saw the movie—he led a boycott of Coors, for one thing.

Perm: THE DARK FUCKING KNIGHT. Go look it up. The lot of ya... THE LOT OF YA... did not believe. Who was right on that one? Uh me. It's not my fault assholes like you did not get behind one of the best family movies made in recent years. This does not change the fact that I called something the LOT OF YA did not see coming.

So what have we learned? YOU SHOULD NOT PLAY. Do not play, you stated you would vote for McCain, and you are a flip-flopper. You make Jay Mariotti proud... ass.

IO...

Re: Dark Fucking Knight. It was a huge hit? Wow, what a shock. No Batman movie had ever been a big hit before! Way to go on a limb.

Re: Speed Racer. You failed. Don't make excuses. And I hear it actually IS your fault. I'll tell you how after:

Re: Me voting for McCain. Never said it. And there's one easy way to prove me a liar, fuckface. Go do it.

You lose. You played, but you learned that this playground has crushed glass in the sand. You got cut, little boy. You got cut deep. Now go cry to your mommy.

fwiw -- i watched 'speed racer' again over the week-end.... like paris hilton, it's kinda pretty and still blows......

IOI, take your goddamn medication.

I know nothing about Park City or who runs it, but wouldn't a Sundance boycott do as much or more economic damage to those who sympathize with gay marriage rights as those who don't? Seems like there ought to be a better way.

Yeah yancy, Park City is really where Utahns go to get away from Utah. It's a very cool city and guilt by association will sadly apply.

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