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"But I have never seen a lesser show of talent hosting Saturday Night Live"

I guess you didn't see the episode January Jones hosted.

I thought he was pretty good in Sharkboy and Lavagirl.

But yeah, banking on him as a lead seems premature. It's already quite clear that the TWILIGHT fanbase does not follow the actors to non-Twilight roles.

I do think your comment about Justin Timberlake, while arguably complimentary, is unfair. He has shown great range on SNL, and been pretty good in movies -- not Olivier, but not worthy of sarcastic references to Olivier either. And I say this as someone who despised him when he was in NYSNC. Dude won me over by having actual talent.

To be fair to Lautner, sketch comedy doesn't come naturally to people just because they're actors. January Jones gets the shit beat out of her reputation all over the place for the hosting job she did on SNL, even though she seemed to be getting positive reviews for her acting on "Mad Men" before that (from what I could tell. I don't watch the show).

Anybody remember the reviews Jessica Lange got for King Kong (1976)?

"It's already quite clear that the TWILIGHT fanbase does not follow the actors to non-Twilight roles."

To be fair, none of the male leads have had movie roles since Twilight came out (apart from Michael Sheen, but if any Twihards are specifically fans for him then they're probably a tiny minority). K-Stew, while certainly garnering the majority of attention, is not universally adored by the fanbase (there's a not-insignificant segment who don't appreciate that she doesn't appear to share their enthusiasm for the series), while Anna Kendrick and Ashley Greene are liked but aren't a focus.

Given how dopey some of Nicholas Cage's turns have been between his most memorable roles, it's probably not fair to write Lautner off just yet. He may show flashes of talent, but being pushed to the level of "superstardom" that hard and fast has problems... Lindsay Lohan was not without her charms but is probably the prime case for why you shouldn't ride the accelerator pedal as hard as possible.

i feel sorry for guest-hosts who bomb live, it's like watching someone struggling to tread water - completely out of their depth - and there's nothing you can do but watch them go down.

not all actors are 'entertainers' with larger than life personalities or blessed with intrinsic comic timing, which is really what a successful host of SNL needs (at least back in the olden days when i used to watch it, i'm completely out of the loop nowadays). lautner strikes me as a '1/2 threat', but he's such a pup maybe he'll develop a personality like he's developed his abs with time and experience

Blake Lively was worse on SNL and just got a sweet deal as well....

I mean...is he really worse than Channing Tatum? (I liked "Guide to Recognizing Your Saints" but it seems like a fluke..)

There's so many examples that have gone both ways in Hollywood...look at how Ryan Phillipe, Matt Dillon, Leo and Mark Wahlberg started ended up on one side and Orlando Bloom, Paul Walker and Ashton Kutcher on the reverse. Bloom is the best template of Hollywood losing their shiz the way they have for Lautner though..and boy that ended badly.

Er... it didn't end that badly. Elizabethtown and Kingdom of Heaven may have stunk up the joint, but I'm pretty sure the studios weren't disappointed with the $500mil for Troy and $960+mil for the two Pirates sequels.

Granted the ones that made money did so on the backs of other stars, but his movies were still in the black overall.

Foamy - there was that Dali biopic with R-Pattz. I know it was made before Twilight, but it came out after. I think he might even be nude in it...but it tanked.

Lautner is no genius. He may be a car wreck. I agree it is hard to tell.

But what of Sam Worthington?

One could argue he ruined TSal and he certainly is not on screen much in Avatar. No one is seeing it for him.

If one is to pick on any actor who is getting to taste the fruit of Hollywood, that is who should get the shit stick. Lautner may flake out...but at least he worked hard for his role in New Moon.

True - but it was only released on a grand total of 15 screens, and did a respectable $3000 per screen for the first month. From the looks of its 2008 screenings at festivals I don't think it ever had the backing to distribute wide, let alone provide the marketing that a wide release would entail - I don't think it was a limited release based on poor tracking.

Apart from the most devoted Team Edward Twihards, they probably didn't even know it existed, let alone be able to get near a theatre that was screening it.

Not really apropos, but I just caught up with Jon Hamm on SNL last week. January Jones' shame is compounded by her TV husband being one of the best hosts they've had in years. Sergio and Scott Brown were total madness. He was brilliant.

"Don't make me sing... Oh, don't make me sing." WIIG POWER. The fact that everyone on earth HATED that skit just makes it even funnier. Hamm was great last week, but Lautner's ex TAYLOR SWIFTY-SWIFT is HANDS DOWN (and you know where my hand is going) THE BEST SNL HOST OF ALL TIME, even the cat ladies on TWOP agreed. EVERY skit of the Swift week was SOLID GOLD and she brought her A game.

Now, on to this kid:

I don't know what the fuck MAX STEEL or STRETCH ARMSTRONG are, but this kid better take a cue from the Cruise, Pitt, Leo, Maguire playbook STAT and work with some GOOD DIRECTORS. THAT is the ONE AND ONLY THING that makes the difference between a Matt Dillon and an Andrew McCarthy, a Tom Cruise and a pre-TV 1987 Patrick Dempsey, a Sean Penn and a Craig Sheffer.

When these kids get their SAG card, someone should send them to USC to take a remedial film class or at least give them a Roger Ebert book so they can divine who the important directors are, and tell them to say no to everything else.

Unfortunately, most pretty-boy actor types aren't really ensconsed in THE AUTEUR THEORY so they just pick whatever gets shoved at them.

You can throw up Orlando Bloom all you want, but he worked with Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott TWICE (Black Hawk Down, Kingdom of Heaven), Cameron Crowe... you can't say he didn't give it a go, or pick smart stuff where either he got lost in the shuffle or just didn't catch on.

But that's a WORLD AWAY from doing third-tier comic books and teen romances.

What was really pathetic about the January Jones SNL crappiness was that just before that time there was a maxim cover article on her (I don't normally read it, but, you know, i love mad men, and have hopes for jan) where the entire article she is literally saying things like "I'm actually a really funny person" and it was all about how she honed her acting chops going out with jay seigel and shit like that. it came out 2 weeks or so before the snl so i feel it was just publicity for that, but still, she came off as a self-serious, glib, arrogant, nothing in my mind. the snl reinforced that solidly.

taylor lautner is nothing too, and he will never be a male friendly star because he still acts and sounds like a little girl (his nasely voice really almost baffles me everytime I hear it).

what ever happened to pattinson? whens his snl coming out? (hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha)

PATTINSON POWER.

TEAM EDWARD. BY A MILE.

Cool dude.

didn't hit refresh before i posted, didn't see the update on r pat...

and seriously we're gonna trash on the blake lively snl and venerate fucking taylor swift?... vain wyommissing trash acts like a saltine and has eyes like brittany murphys mom on larry king. (wanna to bash tay tay, liked her snl--i'm full of it!)

I think you'd have all the A-list directors rolling their eyes if the Lautners/Tatums/Pattinsons/Random-teenager-coming-off-their-first-hits started insisting they were only working with the best.

I've never been overly impressed with the final cut of Bloom's performances, but I've witnessed a number of actors over the years who gave great test screenings but then didn't live up to that potential under direction. It could be that's what happened - I can't imagine the caliber of directors he worked with all caved in to studio/agent requests to cast him against their will.

No, he's not a star, and neither is Pattison. The girls of "Twilight" are a different story. Anna Kendrick's had a helluvah year, Kristen Stewart is poised to break past the tweeners, and Ashley Green's got 1 hour CBS procedural in her future.

And January Jones' turn was the bigger trainwreck. It was painful to watch.

Rossers, can we get an English translation on any of that?

SWIFT POWER.

It really NEVER ceases to amaze me how negative 99% of movie-board, popcult, film criticy-type people are about the business they ostensibly LOVE and revolve around.

You think Quentin Tarantino or Martin Scorsese have actors they HATE and are THIS fussy about seeing movies or liking anything?

Also, what's with hating on all these hot chicks?

Since you all want to be directors and writers and famous people, your GOAL IN LIFE should be to bang Blake Lively, January Jones, or Taylor Swift (or considering how many gay dudes post here, I guess substitute Orlando Bloom or Robert Pattinson), not stay up on a Friday night posting venom about them on a message board.

Like, do you fuckers LIKE AAAAAAAANYTHING?

Nicol,

We rarely agree on anything but you are dead on about Worthington. Wooden, laconic and uninspiring are words that come to mind when thinking about him. I used to work at Fox and I intercepted a memo(lie but it is probably true) being passed around from one studio exec to the next that proclaimed they would all use Worthington for every tentpole release for the next 2 years or until his agent raised his quote, whatever happened first.

Say what you will about 8 pack abs Lautner, at least he seems engaged and genuinely grateful for his good fortune. The next time Worthington expresses an emotion will be the first. I mean, mix in an expression that isn't computer generated, once in a while!

And Lex, we agree on many things but CHRIST, will you get over Swifty? The whole wounded flower thing got old really quick. She's one to look at(although I would argue she's not all that attractive) and pray she never speaks. If that moron Kanye hadn't created that debacle, I would only have cursory knowledge of who she is and I can guarantee she would never have hosted SNL(musical guest, maybe).

Did I mention that Sam Worthington is the new Keanu Reeves? Whoa!

BTW, Sam Worthington says,"I know kung fu!"

BTW 2.... Lex, believe me, I am only up because I am putting together my evil plan to make Blake Lively or Leighton Meester mine,(twisting my evil, imaginary mustache).

Oh yeah, Sam Worthington wanted you all to know that, to quote him,"I AM AN FBI AGENT!" Or that he is "Ted 'Theodore' Logan".....

did you just say TEAM EDWARD, lex?

as far as liking stuff, i liked 'orphan' what i saw just now, freaky cool

(and i like sam. a more typical ozzy bloke you're not likely to meet, tough little nugget, no BS, no PR skills, freezes up like a deer in the headlights in the hollywood spotlight, a goofball underneath, can't be accused of overacting, low-key charisma chicks dig, a bit of a honey, plus he's avatar jake - the cocky hot jackass girls secretly wanna do. yes, please)

and at least he's a grown man and not some barely-above-the-age-of-consent girl

"She's one to look at(although I would argue she's not all that attractive) and pray she never speaks"

yeah, just sit there, look nice, and keep your dumb mouth shut!

Eh, I think the director, producers, writers and studio ruined TSal far more than Worthington did. It's not exactly Bale's career best performance either. I don't like Avatar all that much either Nicol but Sam W. isn't a bad actor.

sam and weirdly yelchin of all people are the only thing that made 'TSal: the end of the end begins' bearable

leah,

In spite of what you might think, that wasn't what I meant with my comment:

"She's one to look at(although I would argue she's not all that attractive) and pray she never speaks"

Honestly, I'd normally love to listen to most women talk and engage in conversation. Swifty just strikes me as someone who wouldn't have a lot to say. It's not a generalization, it's just an impression I get from what I've seen of her.

As for Sam in TSal, he was decent, since it was the first time I had seen him. But now, he's been doing it for a few movies and Titans doesn't look to be any different. He's one note and beneath Keanu at this point. He'd do well to mix in an emotion or two is all. I'm not saying he needs a buddy cop movie but when his avatar has more expression than he did in anything I've seen him in, I'd say he's a bit stiff.... WHOA!

Go rent Somersault.

SNL is a great litmus test for acting skill.

Watching January Jones' ep was painful. Blake Lively's was equally cringeworthy.

For me, the episode that was the most painful was Ellen Page. A talented actress who just froze up when performing live. It was like that episode of the Flintstones where they go to Hollyrock (or was it Rockwood?) and Wilma gets cast in the show "Frogmouth". The guy cast opposite of her is this giant looking monster of a guy but he talks likes a complete pansy.

By the way, i would like to nominated the previous paragraph for "most dated reference".

So it takes Dear John to knock Avatar out of the No. 1 slot. These are the days of miracle and wonder.

I think Sam Worthington could do a lot worse than following Hugh Jackman's path for the last 10 years instead of the generic "stiff stud". Kate & Leopold and (to a lesser extent) Someone Like You really broadened Jackman out to demonstrate his range after the first X-Men, which then led on to Boy From Oz and The Prestige. Plus they weren't generic "jock with a heart of gold" roles so audiences *coughwomencough* could appreciate his maturity.

Sadly that option isn't available to Lautner...

Terminator Salvation was weak but Worthington was far from the worst part of it. He was certainly better than Bale.

Overall he does seem like another actor being shoe-horned into stardom but he's got a lot more charisma than his predecessors in this regard, e.g. Orlando Bloom. It helps that he actually looks like a man and not a pretty boy. And as Leah said, he has a low-key vibe about him that works. I don't know if he's a very good actor or not but part of stardom is doing a few things very well and knowing your limits.

Who the hell still watches Saturday Night Live? The show is horrendous no matter who's hosting. I get that getting the hosting nod used to mean that you'd arrived, but I can't think of a more masochistic exercise than actually sitting down to watch an episode.

I like Worthington, somebody has to fill the alpha male roles. We'll see how far he can carry Clash of the Titans. Lautner isn't on my radar screen but it's not like Dave to rip actors. I predict Lautner is the next Richard Greco.

@Foamy...Orlando Bloom has gone 3 years without a major release. Every film he made after 2004 anchored by him was a financial disapointment.

Ethan, Bloom's been mostly doing stage work in London since then.

"not all actors are 'entertainers' with larger than life personalities or blessed with intrinsic comic timing, which is really what a successful host of SNL needs"

On a binge of SNL's first four seasons, they had the craziest guest hosts, and unlike today's corporate synergy hosts, the cast got a say in who came on. So there's Strother Martin killin' as warden of a mime camp in a parody of COOL HAND LUKE...

It's funny, Cadavera, whenever I notice that an actor I like has more or less disappeared, I always think 'gee, I hope they're off doing plays'. As for Bloom, he took some time off, did a bunch of work with UNICEF (ala Chris Tucker's AIDS relief work after Rush Hour 2) and now has several modest-to-high profile projects in the pipeline. As it is, I wrote a piece last year basically defending him, that much of the criticism directed at him was due to him playing a given role the way it was supposed to be played (ie - Paris was a whiny loser, Will Turner was the straight man to Sparrow, Balin was NOT supposed to be Maximus, etc) rather than in a way that would make him look 'cool'.

I'm dreading the apparently Jack Sparrow-centric fourth Pirates film, as Sparrow is the offbeat supporting character that badly needs a foil. Pirates 4 sounds a lot like a Shrek sequel starring only Donkey.

For those who care - http://scottalanmendelson.blogspot.com/2009/09/surprising-and-unfair-cinematic-demise.html

Ethan - again, the two wide release "financial disappointments" were Kingdom of Heaven and Elizabethtown, which grossed $200mil and $50mil worldwide respectively. That's breakeven territory for Kingdom and probably a $10mil or so loss for Elizabethtown. Meanwhile he was in a small franchise called Pirates of the Carribean. Haven is arguable, it was dumped but it was also headlined by Bill Paxton and Zoe Saldana and directed by Cameron Crowe. I don't think you can put all the blame for that on him.

From 2001 to today, the guy has been in movies that have grossed over $2billion domestically, and over $6billion worldwide, with $2.8billion coming after your arbitrary 2004 cutoff date and his most recent wide release doing $960mil worldwide. Call it good fortune for picking the right projects, or being blessed with great ensemble casts to carry him, but it certainly didn't "end badly".

I would probably agree that if they tried to push him to carry films on his own in the last three years he might not have done so great. But they didn't - it looked like all parties decided to quit while they were ahead.

Um, Cameron Crowe didn't direct Haven.

Whoops - Cameron Crowe directed Elizabethtown, not Haven.

On the other end of the scale when Jim Carey hosted he showed what SNL could have been had they cast him when he was on their short list.
Night at the Roxbury was all about him-his energy was so memorable they made another sketch with Tom Hanks AND a movie.

@Foamy...200 million worldwide on 130 million production budget is NOT breakeven territory.

Whats more important though is that those roles...along with Troy...basically ruined his career. He was considered for Razzie nominations for all 3 films and projects he's had in development since, such as "Vesuvius" with Keira Knightley failed to procure financing.

My point is the history of launchind male actors' careers based on one performance or modeling can go either way...Id argue that Wahlberg, Leo, Phillippe ended up doing well while Bloom, Ian Somerhalder, Paul Walker have flamed out spectacularly. None of them have had any roles to speak of other than franchises over the last few years and in all 3 cases it has to do with questions re: their talent and bankability.

Dicaprio, Wahlberg and even Channing Tatum have all managed to crossover at least SLIGHTLY to male audiences. I have a hard time seeing Lautner doing that, especially given his age...but his athleticism is a wild card.

Regardless it's too early to tell. Tatum's first major role was SUPERCROSS for God's sake, in which he's just as atrocious as Lautner in New Moon. Wahlberg's was in the pretty damn bad "Fear" with Reese Witherspoon.

Gotta add though that the phenomenon of giving people bigger and bigger roles who have less experience is stupid...however I don't think Lautner's roles are as big as Brandon Routh, Chris Hemsworth (Thor), Sam Worthington or Dan Radcliffe got with equal experience...and is on par with Chace Crawford (Footloose) and Nikki Blonskey.

@Ethan - Sure it is... as long as it has strong DVD and rental figures too.

Kingdom of Heaven may look like they lost their shirts at first - $50mil domestic on a $130mil budget is pretty appalling, but given the strong international and DVD they probably only walked away with bruised egos.

SNL passing up Jim Carrey? that has to be their biggest blunder ever.

A 10 million opening is not good for a film of that size. It's on par with Fireproof or Hotel for Dogs today....on par with "Smokin Aces" and "The Good Shepherd" among films released a few years ago.

Plus 130 million doesnt factor in Prints and Advertising budget....trust me, there's no way the studio ended up not in the red ink on this one.

Really? Apparently it's comparable to Shrek the Third, which had a mere $800mil worldwide theatrical and $174mil in DVD sales.

I agree with Leah in that, while I didn't like Worthington in Avatar, I thought he was really very compelling, and one of the only good things, about Terminator Salvation.

Bloom would be a perfect match for the Twilight movies. Or is he too old for any appropriate role in them?

Huh Foamy? Shrek the Third opened with 65 million in DVD sales...6.5 times what Kingdom did.

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2007/SHRK3-DVD.php

The two articles I linked were for rentals, not sales. Comparing apples to apples.

I'm not trying to make the case that Orlando Bloom is a true Hollywood star - I don't believe he is. But objectively he didn't do badly.

Starting from Titanic in 1997, Leonardo di Caprio has made 11 wide releases for a $850mil total production budget which grossed $3,580mil worldwide, for a 422% return on budget. Starting from Fellowship of the Ring in 2001, Orlando Bloom has made 11 wide releases for a $1,385mil total production budget which grossed $6,550mil worldwide, for a 472% return on budget. (Granted, four of those for Orlando are sequels, but Leo was working with the likes of Tom Hanks and Jack Nicholson who are kings of the box office in their own right)

Both faltered along the way. Leo had Celebrity which grossed $6mil worldwide off a $12mil budget, Orlando had Elizabethtown which grossed $51mil worldwide on a $54mil budget. Leo had Blood Diamond which grossed $170mil worldwide off a $100mil budget, Orlando had Kingdom of Heaven which grossed $210mil worldwide off a $130mil budget.

Leo took a break to devote time to other interests, Orlando took a break to devote time to other interests after Roman Polanski pulled out of Pompeii (not Vesuvius) after the strikes caused scheduling conflicts (not a finance procurement failure).

Again, I don't think he's the greatest movie star in the world, but I don't think he's worthy of being the cautionary tale for male actors you make him out to be.

As an amendment to the previous post, I'll point out that there's a 4 month break between the last two articles which spoils the "...took a break after..." narrative. But the effect is probably the same (in terms of deciding to stick with the stage work instead of film for a while).

To be fair, Leo's role in "Celebrity" was a glorified cameo and he'd been nominated for an Oscar three years before "Titanic" with "What's Eating Gilbert Grape." Not saying DiCaprio didn't stumble here and there ("Man in the Iron Mask," "The Beach"), but he was already in "Romeo + Juliet" prior to "Titanic," had been on "Growing Pains," etc. whereas Orlando Bloom was basically a complete unknown prior to LOTR.

They're just not starting from the same place following their "big international break-out hits," really.

Man in the Iron Mask and The Beach fall into a pretty similar category to Kingdom of Heaven, in that they did ~70% of their business overseas to add over $100mil to their total.

Blood Diamond was the most similar in terms of Budget size, and Celebrity was the most similar in terms of failure, but I'll freely admit that there are many more differences than similarities between both the individual movies and the overall career.

I just don't think there's enough of a difference to point at Leo and say "he succeeded" while pointing to Orlando and saying "he failed". If anything, it probably more of an example of knowing your limits after you hit it big - pick some safe projects, do a couple of experiments, step out if you think you're over your head before people start losing tens of millions of dollars.

(I'm looking at you Vin Diesel)

I always thought Celebrity was a ballsy movie for DiCaprio to make at that particular moment in his career. Also, I must admit: I think it's one of Woody Allen's more under-rated movies. Nobody gets away unscathed.

Foamy that's totally irrelevant;it's the same as labeling Emma Watson the "top-grossing female of the last decade." Or John Ratzenberg on the male side because he's Pixar's lucky charm.

You really think Bloom would have grossed any more or less in Pirates or LOTR than Jake Gyllenhaal or Heath Ledger would have?

Did you know Maggie Smith is the top-grossing actress of all-time? Who cares? Bloom hasn't had a major role in a film in 3 years, and all 3 of the major films he was a lead in he was considered for Razzies.

Leonardo Dicaprio is a 2-time Oscar nominee and 4-time Golden Globe nominee who purposefull TURNS DOWN roles like Pirates and LOTR and still is a bankable lead actor.

3 time-Oscar, 5 time Globe nominee* (1 win).

And Leo's WON a Razzie personally (for Man in he Iron Mask) while Orlando was only nominated once (not three times).

I know it's tempting, but you can't go "Leonardo Dicaprio is bankable, but the bank that Orlando earned is irrelevant". You can't dismiss that Orlando has personally contributed to 6 and a half billion dollars worth of movie gross, especially when you're claiming that his career "ended badly". You can conjecture all you like about how anyone else could have done the same job, but the fact remains: Orlando earned it with his name featured in big bold letters on the posters. And just like you claim Leo purposefully turned down roles, I've posted evidence that Orlando purposefully did the same thing for the last 3 years.

You may not like it, *I* may not like it, but there it is.

Sure I can... just like I can dismiss Emma Watson's title as highest grossing actress of the decade. Yeah Bloom was nominated for one Razzie but was considered for two other noms...regardless comparing DiCaprio's career to Bloom's is ridiculous.

Films Dicaprio turned down: The Matrix, American Psycho, Boogie Nights, The Good Shepherd, Sin City, Inglourious Basterds, Interview of the Vampire...etc. The films Bloom turned down don't compare...

Regardless Bloom's guarenteed-to-be ghastly turn in Main Street with a North Carolina accent this year should add fuel to this argument.

"Did you know Maggie Smith is the top-grossing actress of all-time?"

Is that true? Did she take the title from Carrie Fisher?

I have yet to see a Sam Worthington performance, but like I tell my brother: "He has the off-screen charisma of a bar stool."

Re LAUTNER: Stretch Armstrong and Max Steel? Who here really thinks either will be a blockbuster? And like I tell my brother: "Taylor Lautner has the off-screen charisma of a tooth pick."

@John Massey...it's true...she, Cameron Diaz and Julia Roberts keep swapping places. Julia has a shot to reclaim it with "Valentines Day," Cameron will probably take it back with Shrek and Knight and Day and Smith will end the year with it with Harry Potter and Nanny McPhee.

PS...Bloom's reviews for his "comeback" in "Sympathy for Delicious" are pretty darn crappy.

You can only dismiss it by changing your argument.

Your argument was: "Bloom is the best template of Hollywood losing their shiz the way they have for Lautner though..and boy that ended badly."

It categorically DID NOT END BADLY because he made 6 and a half billion dollars, with his last wide release before voluntary semi-retirement grossing $960million. Just like Emma Watson's career is not "ending badly" because SHE'S THE HIGHEST GROSSING ACTRESS OF THE DECADE.

I seriously don't know what argument you're trying to prove, but it's not the one that you started with and not the one I've disproved.

Twilight & Twilight 2 did not gross $1.1B WW because of Lautner. POTC & LOTR did not gross Billions because of Orlando Bloom. Both actors are products of those flicks. Bloom has no major success as a lead (yet). Lautner remains untested: although the flicks he's headlining look better on paper, you get the feeling he will only be partial to any success those (brand name) flicks will have. Here is an indisputable fact though: neither can act for shit.

We made fun of Stretch Armstrong as kids. Epic Dumb.

Foamy we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Agree with BOisasBOdoes...based on your example Hayden Christiensen is having a great career and Paul Walker's still A-list just because he's still attached to Fast and Furious.

Supporting roles in a pair of film franchises does not a succesful career make when every other performance you've given has been critically panned. As of now, Bloom's career as a SUCCESSFUL never really existed, and his career as a box office draw ended in 2007...I don't care if he took time off or not.

I still don't get how DiCaprio is no different than Bloom but whatever...I'm sure "Inception" and "Shutter Island" with end up on par with "Sympathy for Delicious" and "Main Street."

successful actor*

It's my opinion that there are three factors that make a star a star: 1) successful movies - Bloom and Lautner both have those and they are good for two things - earning good money and getting your name out there, but I find that factor 2 is missing in most of these new "stars" and that's OFF-SCREEN PERSONALITY. The worlds two biggest stars? Will Smith and Tom Hanks. Shared trait? Big off-screen personalities. Bloom, Lautner and Worthington have zero personality on chat shows and in interviews. Without the big films they would be nobodies. Do you know two people that would make hugely successful actors IMO? John Mayer and Michael Buble. Their music is pretty average, but both those men are closet comedians with VERY likeable personalities and are hugely attractive to women. Oh, and factor 3? The ability to act.

Huh. I admit I didn't expect much out of Lautner after TWILIGHT, but I thought he did very well in NEW MOON. Clearly he had worked on more than just his abs. Didn't see his SNL stint, but we've all seen seasoned, respected pros botch that gig over the years. I think his big hurdle will be that baby face. It'll be hard to take him seriously in these upcoming action roles if he looks too much like your kid brother playing dress-up.

Weird how no one is familiar with Sam Worthington's pretty decent award-winning performance in the woefully underseen Sommersault. Lautner doesn't even have a good performance on his resume, let alone awards from anyone other than Twilight tweeners; it's not a valid comparison, except for agents who believe budget is synonymous with quality.

Well, if you're going to play that game, the top-grossing actor of the past decade must be Sir Ian McKellen: three RINGS films, three X-MEN films and THE DA VINCI CODE, plus about a dozen other features.

Worthington seems like a decent actor, but he's been given nothing to do in the 2 major roles he's been handed.

He was far from the worst part of Terminator Salvation. That would be the girl who played the pilot. She was just terrible.

He is...unless you count voice work. Otherwise it's Hugo Weaving for LOTR/2 Matrix/V for Vendetta...and voice work in the Transformers movies and Happy Feet.

Weird how no one is familiar with Sam Worthington's pretty decent award-winning performance in the woefully underseen Sommersault

I'm also surprised considering the amount of Abbie Cornish nudity. I also agree that Worthington was very good in the film.

stella's boy actually mentioned 'sommersault' up-thread somewhere, i'm sure some people here are familiar with it, i know i am tho it's not the first thing i'd seen sam in (i think that would be 'dirty deeds' but not sure about that, perhaps i saw him on TV first)

sam's turn as joe is subtle and compelling, his struggle to deal with/express his emotions and burgeoning feelings for heidi beyond 'just sex' is very well played, and anyone who thinks sam is capable of nothing more than the 'masculine tough guy' should definitely check it out (plus i would think this is the film that got cornish noticed in a big way, she's the driving force of the raw 'coming of age' tale and delivers a fine perf)

and thinking of 'dirty deeds', that's where i first got my sam freak on, he's great in that; his 'darcy' has an irresistible cheekiness and vulnerability about him, apart from being terribly easy on the eyes

Ethan - I agree, it probably looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree, but I think you're still missing my point.

I'm not trying to prove he had a successful career - I repeated many times I didn't think his acting was great, and I didn't think he carried those franchises. I'm not trying to prove his career is just like Leo's - I emphasised that there are many more differences than similarities between the two careers. I'm saying his career wasn't bad, and that many of the features that people point to as "proof" are either misperceptions of the facts or also happened to many other "success stories".

Leo DiCaprio, Ben Stiller, Will Smith and Arnold Schwarzenegger - some of the biggest names in films, covering a wide spectrum of genres - have all been nominated for razzies (in several cases multiple times), had films with a worldwide gross around half the production budget (Ben in particular must have lost studios close to $100mil), have had critical flops, and have forums and facebook groups devoted to how much people hate them (although in Arnold's case a lot of it is devoted to his political career). It's generally agreed all of these people had successful careers despite those setbacks - so taken in isolation, razzies/flops/public dislike are insufficient to prove the argument that a career went badly. There has to be a stronger pattern that comes through long term in both the reviews and the returns.

To illustrate, here's a 5-point scale of how I might classify "star"-type careers:

* (1) Superstar (Tom Cruise, Leo DiCaprio, Julia Roberts) -
Oscar/globe nominations and wins, consistently has movies grossing over $100mil, movies often quoted by general public

* (2) Star (Samuel L. Jackson, Matt Damon, Sandra Bullock) - movies tend towards $100mil but a smattering of flops too, some critically reviled movies but often noted as "the best thing about a bad movie"

* (3) Did Okay (Orlando Bloom, Kirsten Dunst) - hits tend to outnumber flops, might get singled out personally for poor performances, probably not suited to roles without strong supporting casts to help carry them.

* (4) Downward Trend (Paul Walker, Jessica Biel) - Bursts onto the scene with a movie grossing around $100mil but subsequent projects don't come close to that success, may or may not have a "comeback" 5-10 years later where they rely on others to try and recapture their former glory.

* (5) Train Wreck (Lindsay Lohan, Matthew Lillard, Freddie Prinze Jr) - May (or may not) have once shown talent but now tends to have movies grossing under $20mil if they're lucky enough not to go direct to video. Seann William Scott and Eddie Murphy can arguably go in this category if they didn't have the Ice Age and Shrek franchises respectively.

As an addendum, if Orlando's Sympathy for Delicious and Main Street underperform (which is reasonably likely), then he's probably eligible to be moved into the "Downward Trend" category. But at this point in time he Did Okay.

Returning to Lautner, I'm guessing he's more likely to end up Did Okay/Downward Trend. Train Wreck may still happen if the exec frenzy continues for too long. Worthington I'd probably put in Did Okay, but I think he's got potential to creep into Star if he's careful.

Bloom isn't offered the same type of roles DiCaprio has been since Pirates and LOTR....the movies he was pursuing after Pirates3 were midscale iffy projects that never panned out whether he rejected them or not...not quite the same as turning down Inglourious Basterds.

Throwing out the Razzies we're talking about a guy with 3 Oscar noms and 5 globes (1 win) actor against a no major nom actor. DiCaprio is acting in two films this year directed by the biggest names in the game. Bloom is going for two minor films, one of which his performance in has been widely mocked.

But if you agree...I guess we're done lol

I still don't know why you're trying to prove Leo and Orlando's careers are different - I've said as much and even gone so far as to create categories to explicitly separate them. Proving they're different doesn't help support the argument that Orlando "ended badly" - it's not an "if you're not as good as Leo you must be box office poison" situation.

But, yeah, I guess we're done. ;)

Haha in that case Im bewildered as to why this started...my point was u have guys like Wahlberg, Phillipe, Leo and apparently Tatum (the only one without acting talent) end up one way with Walker, Somerhalder, Bloom and Im willing to wager Chace Crawford on the other side.

Worthington is indeed very good in stuff like Somersault, am I enjoyed him a lot in Gettin' Square. Never saw Salvation. Although I think his awkwardness on chat shows has more to do with them being American. Watch him on this Aussie one and he's much more relaxed. He brings goon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ1Z9-Hdmrs

I'm looking forward to seeing him in Last Night with Keira Knightley. Might be an opportunity to show some proper acting although I will say that he did exactly what was necessary in Avatar (does Arnie's distinct lack of acting talent take away from his movies? Hardly).

People can compared Lautner and January Jones on SNL all they want, but Jones gave one of the absolute finest season-long acting performances I've ever witnessed in season 2 of Mad Men and you cannot compared that to Twilight.

aw, i missed that rove so thanks for posting that, kam!

i mean it. THANK YOU! from the bottom of my loins!!! (yeah, i'v got it sloppy bad for sam, what a honey)

and stuff knightly, sam and sharlto need to co-star in a flick in which they wear at most their usual t-shirts and jeans playing scruffy ne'er-do-wells hatching a moronic bank heist or some such idiocy, and sam speaks in his thick astrain brogue and sharlto in his thick afrikaans (they could make it here, i'd be MORE than happy to work for free for as long as it took...) leah would be a very, very happy camper

There will be much renting of Sommersault if these tales of Cornish nudity are to be believed.

CORNISH POWER.

Also, CHANNING TATUM IS AWESOME. So is Paul Walker... I know Hot Bloggers have to bag on disreputable B pictures, but with the F&Fs, Into the Blue, Running Scared, Takers, etc., Walker is a guarantee of amped-up awesome testosterone and urban sleaze every time. One of my favorite actors.

WALKER POWER.

i like walker in 'road kill' (or 'joyride' or whatever it was called in the north) in which he plays the less attractive brother to the zahn, but channing tatum is gut-churningly repulsive, yuck!

just the thought of tatum puts me off my sam&sharlto-as-scruffy-bank-robbers fantasy buzz

lex, don't ever say i don't give you porn (or cornish boobies anyway):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOaghARXa78&feature=related

^ The above is Reason #12,761 why I don't understand women. Fussy and arbitrary in their likes and dislikes. I think I said this here before, and several guys agreed with it:

You show 10 straight guys Jessica Biel, or Amanda Seyfried, or Giselle Bundchen, or insert a hot chick here, and 9, maybe all ten will be like, OH YEAH, SHE'S HOT. There's never a guy who's like, "Amanda Seyfried? Ew, GROSS. YUCK. She makes me sick."

But show 10 women Brad Pitt, or Channing Tatum, or Leo, or Walker, or Clive Owen, or Eric Bana, or ANY quote-unquote "good-looking guy," and you'll have 10 vastly different opinions, often based on some nonvisual qualifier like how they treated some ex or some lame quote they had or a bad line delivery in some movie; You'll have some easy-listening office temp chick drooling, you'll have some hipster chick feigning disinterest, you'll have a Leahnz acting like the guy's got the fucking plague and looks like Rocky Dennis instead of Brad Pitt.

It's fucking MYSTIFYING. And in general, women are that fussy, catty, gossipy and over-opinionated about EVERYTHING, from where to eat for lunch to last night's episode of The Office. Like, try being a little easier to please.

Leah: WHOA, HOLY CUTE NIPPLES!!!! Cornish is like a Little Charlize! Plus that clip featured one of THE most arousing things on Planet Earth, oft mentioned by the Lexman: Toenail painting!! SO CUTE.

Watching that clip, I've developed a theory: Worthington needs to keep his hair grown out. With his Salvation/Avatar buzzcut, he's just a rich man's Kevin Federline and fairly anonymous. But with that long hair, dude's a fucking movie star and SUAVE AS FUCK. Shit, I'm straight as an arrow but that's one handsome motherfucker in Sommersault. If he clocked in looking like THAT from now one, someone might actually remember who he is from film to film.

it's not that complicated, lex. women just aren't as interminably shallow and it takes more than just looks - the outside facade - to make us go googly-eyed, it takes personality, a certain je ne sais quois, to hook us. pretty simple, that. it's not channing's looks that put me off, it's his manner of being.

and agreed about sam's hair: longer is definitely better. if it was just short of his shoulders i'd faint at the sight of the man

and also, could the sound on that youtube clip be any more out of sync? the old six second delay, i expect godzilla to come crashing thru at any moment

Tatum's got the goods; If he's good enough for MICHAEL MANN's exacting standards, ALL OF AMERICA should be BOWING. COOL DUDE. He's got that early Wahlberg vibe from the Fear, Traveller, Boogie Nights days where he was a little rough and raw, but the earnest emotion and streetwise integrity shone through. FIGHTING and DEAR JOHN and STOP-LOSS prove he's got charisma and isn't entirely off-putting to dudes. TATUM POWER BOW.

In fact, now that I'm on my 2010 SELF IMPROVEMENT KICK, losing weight like a maniac and cutting the booze out by 90% and actually hanging out with women instead of being some bitter asshole, I am going to look up to TATUM as my NEW ROLE MODEL.

Toward this end, I might even break out my Vanilla Ice/Brian Austin Green-era BLACCENT for the first time since I used to rock pegged weightlifter pants and dip Copenhagen rocking a mullet and HAMMER DANCE for chicks in the mall parking lot back in 1992.

B-BOY POWER.

hey, i don't dislike tatum, he actually seems like a nice fellow in any interviews or whathaveyou that i've seen, i just find his 'big galootness' physically off-putting (and i don't think he can act his way out of a paper bag, tho his galootness did suit his part in 'PE'. but that's just me)

and ditching the BLACCENT sound like an excellent idea, lex

B-boy? Are you personally trying to bring back the 80s - it predates Hammer and Vanilla Ice.

Nice call on the shaved SamW = KFed tho.

Sam Worthington in Macbeth is like sex on legs.

"Like, try being a little easier to please."

This bon-mot from the King of Contentment!

The fact that women aren't like guys is the best thing that ever happened to guys. Otherwise a whole lot of us wouldn't be getting any.

"Sam Worthington in Macbeth is like sex on legs."

huh???!!! how could i have not seen that? i am rectifying that like yesterday

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